Proposed change in CF tire spec for 2016

RMDiv Regional Class Rule
Wogrin's
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Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:15 pm

CF tires

Post by Wogrin's »

I have to agree with the Letterly's math on costs, tire wars are why I
got out of kart racing.

So just to add my vote
Yes to AR's for the next 3 to 4 years.
Chris Wogrin
Boysen
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Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:31 am

Post by Boysen »

As far as the CF Regional Championship goes, I do not support allowing newer cars than the current rule ('83 and older; no Swift). As noted by others, newer cars can run as FF, and there could be an allowance for non- spec tires, but expanding eligibility further would lead to a request for Swifts, then for Honda engines, then more tire choices, etc.

On tires, it seems clear from above experiments, and comments from SF Region 2-yrs ago, that the Hoosier R60a is a faster tire. I've tried it too, and I like it. But, I don't necessarily like it $200 per set better. If we allow the Hoosier, I agree that we'll all be on the Hoosier soon, and paying more to race as a result.

I do not support locking in on tires for a long time. Locking in means we guarantee that we will stay on the current AR rule for the time period stated. The tire picture is changing; Hoosier supposedly has a treaded club vintage tire coming, SVRA just mandated Toyos for all FF-CF-PCF, scca will be on a spec radial for Majors. We may want to have an option in the future, just not now.

I vote No on all proposed changes for 2016 to RMD CF Championship rules.
jthompson
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Rules

Post by jthompson »

Keith -
You started this thread.
Want to chime in?
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keith hall
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Location: Arvada, CO

Post by keith hall »

Well, I was hoping to ride rising tide of excitement over the acceptance of the Hoosier tyre for CF. As Bob correctly pointed out I would do just about anything to lower my lap times a few tenths at HPR. So the promise of 2 whole seconds for only $50 per tyre is almost beyond my imagination!

However, it looks like few of you share my excitement. We have a very competitive field in CF and the ARs work just fine on our race cars. The RMVR uses the ARs for their CF class and we can run with them or they can run with us with us whenever we so desire. The vintage FF guys choose not to run with the Avons in CF so I don't see any reason to add those tyres to our CF spec. Hoosier may decide to cut the price of the R60s in the future just to get our CF Championship Series to use them - who knows, stranger things happen every day - so I don't see any reason to lock the tyre decision in for 5 years. I think we should have this discussion every winter.

As to the eligibility issue I just don't know enough about FF history to make an informed decision so I will leave that to the guys who know. Perhaps we should take that on a car by car basis. If someone joins our class and really cleans our clocks then we can have a discussion here. Maybe the ARs are the great equalizer. Perhaps we should let a DB1 run with us for a season on ARs to see? Just as long as he doesn't finish in front of me!

My decision is to vote no on the changes to the CF rules for 2016. Sorry Chris.

I guess I will just have to keep throwing my $$$ at lighter parts so I can get down to min weight.
Keith Hall
CF #18
Jim Widrg
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Post by Jim Widrg »

I am fairly new to CF racing with SCCA and new to the spec tire issues in this class. I have raced with PCA Club Racing in a 911SC for several years and have gone through several different tires to find both a competitive tire and best cost for me. Tires do make a difference at some point but driving skills, car set-up, reliability, are other factors that play into the overall performance on track. I have no problem with allowing any of these tires as each racer will individually choose the tire that suits their budget, car set-up, and driving skills. Just keep a tire size limitation. If we were a majors class then it would be different. Availability throughout the season will also help if there are more than one tire to choose from. Right now I am on a Hoosier diet in PCA racing and would like a lower cost option in running CF.

Jim Widrig
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keith hall
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Post by keith hall »

Everyone,

We are fast approaching Chris' cutoff date of before Dec 22, 2015 for the CF rules change vote. Not everyone has declared their vote on each proposed rule change and some were not clear on anything. I have attempted to compile the clear yes and no votes here:

Proposal to add Hoosiers to the approved tyre list:
Yes 2 votes
No 7 votes

Proposal to add Avons to the approved tyre list:
Yes 2 votes
No 6 votes

Proposal to change the year of manufacture to 1986:
Yes 1 vote
No 4 votes
Keith Hall
CF #18
Boysen
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Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:31 am

allow treaded CF tires

Post by Boysen »

I did not mean to vote against allowing guests from RMVR, or Arizona, to use the club tires which they normally run on. Specifically, the Dunlop 9092, Avon ACB9 in A29 compound, and the Toyo R888 dot radial. I don't think that any these tires have a performance advantage over the AR, and I thought that we had voted them in for those guests. In fact, one of the pictures recently posted on this site, under the Club Ford Championship, shows a car on treaded tires. I vote to allow the above specifically.
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Chris Doyle
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Post by Chris Doyle »

As I'm having difficulty making a poll to get the vote we will use the tally the Keith has put together as the results. That being said there are no changes to to the rules.
Chris Doyle
Club Ford Class Administrator

Surface Exploration Ltd
Shop # 303.940.1500
Fax # 303.940.1509

www.surfaceexploration.com
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keith hall
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Location: Arvada, CO

Post by keith hall »

Thanks Chris,

I am looking forward to revisiting the tyre discussion next winter. Who knows, maybe the price of rubber will tank just like oil.

In response to Boysen's post I assume that we will still honor our gentleman's agreement with the RMVR that any of the vintage FFs are welcome to run with us on their Avons or Dunlops.

BTW, some of the pictures on the CF web page are from the RMVR FF Festival. Thanks to Billi and Andy Melvin for the pics.
Keith Hall
CF #18
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keith hall
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Post by keith hall »

Hoosier Introduces a new treaded tire for vintage FF classes:

http://www.svra.com/tech-bulletins/tb2016-004-ff-tires/


Reported to be based on the R60 compound this bias ply tire may be something to consider in the next spec tire discussion. I am certain the the RMVR guys will test this for us.
Keith Hall
CF #18
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