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Proposed change in CF tire spec for 2016
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Bob Melvin



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 52
Location: Lakewood, CO

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:00 am    Post subject: rules stability Reply with quote

I'd like to interject some additional thought into this process.

In addition to the choices presented, I'd like to suggest that for the sake of rules stability, which generally encourages investment and stable pricing, I'd ask this question of all:

Q: Are you in favor of declaring the A/R the only allowed tire through 2020? Y / N
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Bob Melvin



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 52
Location: Lakewood, CO

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:25 am    Post subject: correction Reply with quote

I forgot to add the Avon to my question.

In addition to the choices presented, I'd like to suggest that for the sake of rules stability, which generally encourages investment and stable pricing, I'd ask this question of all:

Q: Are you in favor of declaring the A/R AND Avon tires the only allowed tire through 2020? Y / N
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racer84



Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:43 am    Post subject: Hoosier R60 Reply with quote

I have a 1979 Lola T540 CF that has Log Books with SCCA and RMVR. This car is currently being run with the AR133 tires in RMVR events as a CF. RMVR accepted the AR133 for CF so that SCCA cars can run with RMVR. I am in favor of running the Hoosier R60 tires in SCCA and RMVR. I do not favor having only 1 tire choice. The Avon tire should be a tire choice for those running Vintage 1972 and older FF cars.

Tire Choice Approval:

AS133 - Yes for CF
Hoosier R60 - Yes for CF
Avon - Yes for Vintage 1972 and older FF cars

Lothar Kremer
1979 Lola T540 CF
2001 Camaro T4
SCCA and RMVR Member & Racer
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Chris Doyle



Joined: 07 Jan 2003
Posts: 96
Location: Westminster, Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob,

Why is it you are only for the American Racer? Why don't you like Hoosier? What is wrong with having an option?
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Chris Doyle
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Fax # 303.940.1509

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Bob Melvin



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 52
Location: Lakewood, CO

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:16 pm    Post subject: Doyle answer Reply with quote

Chris:

Good point.

Perhaps I should leave it open to the Avon and 'the other choice'. If we vote and choose the AR, which seems extremely likely, then it would be put in a final question to the voters.

I don't think too many will vote for the Hoosier to be an optional choice to the Avon and the AR simply due to the fact.....the fact that the Hoosier is softer and significantly faster. Everyone's feedback is that it is, in fact, due to it's softer compound, faster. I can't imagine how much I would invest in my race car if you walked up and said to me, "Hey, Buddy, want to go two seconds faster?" Geeeezus I have been trying to find two seconds forever.

If the tires are just .7 seconds faster then I know K Hall will have a set for the first race. Then I'll buy a set. What will the Letterley's do? If Keith blows them off, then they will have to buy sets.

I think rules stability for four years, through 2020 would provide some relief from this perennial question.

Let's have some more discussion and then vote. I am particularly interested in what the Letterley Boys have to say as they are collectively the most experienced and play a large part in our Club's entries.

Bob
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Chris Doyle



Joined: 07 Jan 2003
Posts: 96
Location: Westminster, Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob,

What evidance do you have that say the Hoosier is a softer compound than the American Racer?
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Chris Doyle
Club Ford Class Administrator

Surface Exploration Ltd
Shop # 303.940.1500
Fax # 303.940.1509

www.surfaceexploration.com
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Bob Melvin



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 52
Location: Lakewood, CO

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:44 pm    Post subject: compounds Reply with quote

Chris:

Please refer to Kieth's detailed post on page 1. I spoke to Keith and Jim extensively in addition to the posts here.

Bob
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Chris Doyle



Joined: 07 Jan 2003
Posts: 96
Location: Westminster, Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So your evidance is the simple fact that someone went faster on them, so that means they are softer.

Let me tell you what I know about both of these tyres:
New American Racers measure 60 on a tyre durometer,
New Hoosiers measure 60 on a tyre durometer.
Tyre Durometers are to measure hardness, that being said I believe the compounds to be similar.

The tyre constuction of the tyre carcus it self is different since there two different companies, so that is where the difference in tyre characteristics lies.
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Chris Doyle
Club Ford Class Administrator

Surface Exploration Ltd
Shop # 303.940.1500
Fax # 303.940.1509

www.surfaceexploration.com
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Bob Melvin



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 52
Location: Lakewood, CO

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:07 pm    Post subject: Say What? Reply with quote

I don't wish to debate this with you, Chris.

But....your durometer measures hardness. It can't tell what the compounding agents in the tire's make-up are or how they react to heat.

Am I missing something? Remember, Chris, I'm just a driver, not a Prep Shop Owner.

Bob
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jthompson



Joined: 01 Apr 2014
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:26 pm    Post subject: Rule changes Reply with quote

I'll get my two cents worth out of the way.

I like the idea of running CF more or less like a spec class. That means one tire. Everyone on the same footing and let the drivers compete. The ARs have worked well for this purpose, and George has supported us well for years. An alternative tire would defeat this purpose.

If the Hoosier were to be approved, it would quickly become the de facto spec tire. Keith has described his experience with them, and I have seen the time sheets from when both Chris and Jim switched between the two. All showed an obvious lap time advantage to the Hoosiers. (I don't care why, just observing the facts)

I have no strong feelings either way on the Avons. The issue of accommodating RMVR members has been discussed for two seasons (and I was a supporter of the idea), however I have yet to hear any real interest from RMVR racers. Why worry about it if it isn't an issue to them? Also, the ARs are already approved for their CF class.
I ran Avons against the usual CF gang last August. The times are on the record. I think Keith's observations are accurate. There is not much difference in lap times between them and ARs. (If the Avons are approved, it should specify the A29 compound, not the A25, to match the vintage rules).

So I guess my votes would be:

Year of eligibility change: NO
Hoosier as an alternative: NO
Avon as an alternative: NO

(Another question to be answered is whether we could still use Majors events as part of the CF divisional points race. See Rule 4. Does the FF spec tire rule preclude this?)

Jerry Thompson.............
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